Percy Allen has an interesting piece up regarding Chris Wilcox' contract impasse, and how this is Radmanovic all over again (he doesn't actually say that, but I think every Seattle fan is thinking it). Whether this impasse is more of a small footbridge or the Akashi-Kaikyo Bridge in Japan is open to debate; after all, it is the job of Wilcox' agent to create hype. If he comes out and says everything is going swell in negotiations, he doesn't exactly have much pull, does he?Regardless, I’m beginning to wonder how much Wilcox is worth. The prevailing wisdom is that Wilcox never got a chance in LA, languishing behind Elton Brand in a PF never-neverland, and that his burst of scoring in rebounding in Seattle wasn’t due to a salary drive, but to playing time. But is that the truth?
It may surprise you to know that this isn’t the first time Chris Wilcox has posted big numbers for an extended period. In fact, in November of 2004, Wilcox averaged 14 points and 6 boards, before seeing his playing time – and numbers – curtailed for the rest of the season.
But, Pete, you’re saying, doesn’t that mean that Wilcox just needed playing time to produce? Well, I suppose that’s one way of looking at it. It’s true, Wilcox was stuck behind one of the best 4’s in the game in Brand. But doesn’t it make you wonder just a little why Mike Dunleavy couldn’t find more time for an athletic 6’10” power forward who can score in traffic? Further, does it worry anyone else that Wilcox disappeared the final 5 games of the season, failing to score more than 10 points in any of them? Shouldn’t a guy who’s getting the money Wilcox is going to get put up solid numbers almost every night?
I’m sorry, but the longer this deal drags out the more I’m beginning to question the wisdom of locking up Chris Wilcox for 4 or 5 years, especially considering he hasn’t produced anything more than a one-month outburst. A common piece of wisdom in the NBA goes that it’s how you do the second time through the league that matters (see Murray, Flip), when defenses started planning for you and opposing coaches recognize you. Considering Wilcox has yet to produce in that sort of situation, I’d be hesitant to extend him the offer he’s expecting. And considering that someone like Drew Gooden is sitting out there, well, wouldn’t the money Seattle is earmarking for Wilcox be better spent on someone – like Gooden – who has produced consistently in the league for more than one month?
22 comments:
The Sonics need a front-office that can actually....hmmmm....what's the word I'm looking for....ummmmm.....NEGOTIATE! That's it - negotiate!
Why did the Bulls lock up Ben Wallace so fast? Because they said 'If you don't sign for $XX Million, we have to move on, and we have to move quick, so make up your mind!' The signing may be great or it may backfire, but they did it confidently.
And immediately Portalnd locks up Pryzbilla and Detroit signed Mohammed. Again, the signings may be good or bad, but those teams were decisive. The words 'Sonics' and 'decisive' haven't been used in the same sentence in months.
Personally, I don't think Wilcox is worth $50 million (or whatever) for 5 good months. But we shouldn't be debating it. The Sonics should have showed Wilcox that he's part of their plan, given him a dollar figure and a period of time to decide. They should have demanded a Yes or No, so they can move on to other possibilities like Al Harrington or whoever.
Instead they allow Wilcox and his agent to control the negotiations while other GMs are working to acquire any useful assets currently on the market.
What's the difference between the Sonics and a doormat? You're happy to see a doormat at your own house.
Your definiton of decisive is paying someone. The Sonics are being decisive they have decided that Wilcox is not worth the absurd 6 year 60 million that his agent wants. That is decisive. That is also right. Your other idea that good or bad doesn't matter is well ..... bad.
Look at every move that is being made it is all about trading bad contracts at least give the Sonics credit for learning that lesson.
"Your definiton of decisive is paying someone. The Sonics are being decisive they have decided that Wilcox is not worth the absurd 6 year 60 million that his agent wants. That is decisive. That is also right. Your other idea that good or bad doesn't matter is well ..... bad."
No, my idea of being decisive is demanding that Chris Wilcox make up his d**n mind and not make the Sonics front office look like Huey, Duey, and Louie. Sign him, sign and trade him, or walk away.
Wilcox and his agent are running the negotiations through the media, and they've the upper hand at the moment. Nine teams have contacted the Sonics about Wilcox, but Rick Sund has rebuffed all of them.
Word is that Seattle wants an All-Star forward in return for Wilcox!! What a laugh!! Let me get this straight - he's not worth long-term, big-money - but he IS worth an All-Star!! What about this is decisive??
If Rick Sund wants an All-Star in return for Chris Wilcox - therefore he regards Chris Wilcox as a (potential) All-Star - therefore he should be willing to pay him All-Star money. But he's not!
From the Seattle Times:
"Many believed the Sonics would offer Wilcox the six-year, $42 million deal they extended Vladimir Radmanovic last year, but Seattle's offer was slightly lower because only a few teams have the salary-cap flexibility to aggressively pursue the 6-foot-10 power forward."
If the Sonics think other teams can't pony up the dough, they should've approached Wilcox with an ultimatum: 6 years for $40 million (or whatever) - and we NEED AN ANSWER within 48 hours or we have to move on to other players. Period. No negotiations. Be decisive.
Too late for that. Don't blame me for the bad press - talk to Wilcox, his agent, and Perry Allen of the Seattle Times.
Remember, these are the same sort of things we heard last summer about Radmanovic ... and look where it got him. He turned down the Sonics' offer and wound up getting less money - and he'll still wind up coming off the bench.
I can see your point regarding the lack of quick decision-making from the Sonics, but I think you're misguided in saying that the Sonics should just force players to make a decision by playing hardball. That sort of thinking works in blog-land, but not in the real world, where teams have to build relationships with agents, players, and teams. What good does it do Seattle to burn bridges now? Remember that no one can sign until July 12, the season is still 3 months away ... and 90% of the stuff we hear from agents and GMs at this time of the year is BS/negotiating tactics.
I say sign Wilcox immediatley! This is the Sonics' chance to get an impact big man without having to trade anyone. I think the reason he didn't play well in the last week was due more to playing time than anything else, the same as it was on the Clippers. If you look at his per 40 minute averages, they've been pretty consistent, even after he joined the Sonics (okay, they went up some, but it's not like his stats were awful before). Sometimes it takes guys awhile to find their niche - besides, who's going to start at PF if he leaves? I don't think Gooden will be available 'cuz he'll probably sign in Cleve.
No teams will give him more than the Sonics.
The front office doesn't want to overpay him (Dalembert) and I can understand this.
More than 50 millions over 6 years is really too much.
I believe that a short deal (3 years) would be the perfect solution
Yea, sign him, don't give him too much money but get him in here so we can have a solid core and go from there. Show him we appreciatte his hustle last season and give him about 40 million for 4 - 5yrs. Denham Brown is gonna be so clutch for us late in games, he is nasty from beyond the arc.
Over at RealGM they quote Wilcox's agent saying they might do a three-year deal with the Sonics.
I think this whole thing is another over-hyped media deal, where a "WILCOX MIGHT DEMAND TRADE" headline sells a lot more papers than "WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WILCOX IS GOING TO DO YET".
Keep your fingers crossed.
I'm with Paul; it's a "there's not much else to talk about at this point, so let's talk about Wilcox" thing if you ask me. If the Sonics can get him for 3 years, I say hell yeah.
Nice story ... I like the Gooden idea. I'm wondering what Collison's role is going to be this season. If Wilcox is re-signed, and with Petro/Swift/Sene on board, there aren't too many minutes available for Nick.
You figure Wilcox is good for 30-35 a night, and P/S/S should get all 48 at center, meaning there's only 13-18 minutes for Collison left over.
Of course, the way he commits fouls, that might be too many minutes.
The word i heard about Wilcox and clip-land is that he wasn't exactly a thinker. Raw athlete, unable to adjust to a complex NBA playbook.
As for 6-40, are you kidding me?!? Look, I'm as happy as anyone that he resurrected his career, but do I feel we should lock him up and limit our salary cap flexibility? No. Not with Rad-man, and not with a (at this point) one year wonder.
It isn't like the next reincarnation of Shawn Kemp here, people. He is a strong athlete and puts up decent numbers. He is not ever going to be a top offensive option, he is an action guy, and if he loses a step or two athletically he will be next to useless, Collison w/o offensive skill (albeit better shoulders.)
Collison and a one year FA (along with increased Petro/Swift PF/C combos is not a horrible way to go here, if the money becomes an issue.
I'd give the guy a 3 yr 18 mil at most (preferably 3 yr 14 mil), giving all parties the opportunity down the road to re-up. Everyone wins.
And as far as the Sonics F.O. seeming to be weak in general, I don't think the national consensus registers one way or another. Would you rather Isaiah was here? He's pretty decisive. Decisive isn't always good. Didn't we learn anything from PacMan? (Two bulls on a hillside looking down at a herd of heifers?!?)
requesting an All Star F in return, you ever heard of negotiating? You don't want to say, "Yeah, I guess we'll take a role player from you" if you expect the other team to meet you half way and have it work.
c'mon. tactics. you know the Sonics are absolutely slobbering on a potential lotto pick for next year in return.
chess, not checkers people. c'mon.
i don't think that we should start from scratch again, when we got wilcox and watson we looked like a much better side. Keep in mind that those trades were half way through a season. I don't think that we should be critical until we get an offseason under the belt and see how well these guys can play as a TEAM.
Saying that wilcox is the brightest guy may not be an inccorect statement but the way he reads the plays is excellent, with a bit more work with some guards and a bit more fitness he will be slammin the ball on every transition play
personally i would like to see wilcox stay, if 9 teams have shown intrest that shows how valuable he is, i just hope that if he signs a 6 year deal that he can make a immediate difference to the sonics regular season record
it was pretty clear to me watching games last season that after watson and wilcox showed up, our collective hope was surging. after a horribly dissapointing season, we we're looking good-- maybe it was just our reaction to how horrible it was to fall from the second round of the playoffs to SUCKING... but at the time, when Wilcox had the 20-20 game, didn't we all agree that we were onto something? the sonics had gotten back on track?
Wilcox it seemed was one of the missing keys. Clearly the fit. Whether he become the second or third scorer, we were committed that this was a piece.
Though I do remember Colabro announcing a game and overdoing his comparison of Wilcox to Kemp: "whens the last time a sonic had a 20-20 game? he's like a shawn kemp without all the showmanship"
Colabro seemed to intone some disdain, after all these years, for the slap happy, exhuberant, throw-the-dunk-down in-your-face athletic insanity that was shawn kemp.
But I've never felt anything like Kemp in Wilcox. When they talk about his upside, he's only 23 or 24, I get excited. I think Wilcox could be the answer here. All of our players are not at their prime except Allen and he's a true cornerstone of a franchise.
But then I remember Kemp. And how he could change games, how he was the best player in the '96 finals.
Wilcox is no Kemp. Sign him for something affordable (I can't throw out the numbers here-- 40 50 million?-- I don't know the salary cap rules), just be sure to sign him for something where we can still afford to get "the amazing athlete that can change the game" player.
i loved kemp too, and he definitely ate up Karl Malone and Charles Barkley in seperate Western Conference playoffs, but the best player in the 96 series was the best player to ever lace up hightops.
Mars Blackmon will tell you who. That isn't a knock on Kemp, but he wasn't the best in that series.
as far as the team playing better once they got Watson and Wilcox, I agree they helped, but perhaps there is more at play here than simply "they are good."
1) no team as talented as the Sonics were should play as bad as they did for that extended of a period of time. They ended up in the lotto about where they deserved to be.
2) Bob Hill wasn't Bob Weiss. Big difference there.
3) Both trades on some level improved the team as much from "addition by subtraction" as by pure addition. radman and evans (and flip) were becoming cancers that hurt the team.
I'm not at all saying that the aren't solid players, I'm just saying the jury is out on how good they truly are, and how critical to the Sonics future success wilcox is.
hmmm... 14-18M over 3 years won't work, because if there are 9 teams showing interest and most teams have the midlevel exception, then probably most of those nine could make him the midlevel exception offer... 5 years, 31 million. That is what radman got from the lakers, and I like wilcox better than radman. The sonics offered radman 42 over 6 which I though was just a tad high. I hope that the sonics get wilcox for about 45 over 6, or 40 over 5. And if they have to do a 3 year deal it will probably have to be around 24 or 25 million, as I think this will be just out of reach of most teams needing a PF.
Nuss got it right. Its all about the relationship. Anyone ever got a girl by saying you've got until 10:00 to go home with me or I'm looking else where? I don't think so.
Reinfelt(sp?) has done a terriffic job with the Hawks. He solves the problem and gets the deal done. The Sonics are way too passive in courting their players and therefore end up forced to make due with what they end up with as oppoosed to what they want. If Wilcox fits the bill, get it done. Let him see that Seattle is a place he wants to be, then focus on the money.
Just to beat the sexual analogy to death, you can't get laid without some flirting, wineing and dining and foreplay.
Btw, I vote to keep Chris, get it done Wally.
I just hope Wilcox isn't the girl the puts out to land a husband quickly and then only gives it once a week after marriage.
hawks have been doing a great job?
heard the Chris Paul/Marvin Williams debate?!?
not so sure on that one.
Good point on the mid-level exception, but i fear too much Wilcox is frigid after marriage to lock him up long term...
Soemwhere in your article you referred to Drew Gooden as producing consitently. Pretty much after that my mind was so blown I couldn't really process the rest of the post...
"hawks have been doing a great job?
heard the Chris Paul/Marvin Williams debate?!?
not so sure on that one."
Hahahaha. Good god. He was talking about the Seahawks. Well, unless the Atlanta Hawks have their own Mike Reinfeldt.
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