Thursday, March 2


In keeping with the “keep hope alive” sentiment, here’s how the teams Seattle is chasing fared last night:

Denver (current record: 31-27): W (oh, come on, Pistons!)
Hornets (31-27): L (16 points in the 2nd half?)
Lakers (29-29): L (thanks, Nate)
Kings(27-30): W
Jazz (27-30): L (gotta love that, no matter the situation)

Seattle (22-36): off

The net result is that the Sonics are now 7 games out of the playoffs, which is a full half-game better than they were yesterday. There are no games on tap for tonight featuring Sonic rivals for the playoffs.

Well, I figure at this pace, they’ll pass the Lakers by next Wednesday. Look, I know the “Sonics” and “playoffs” really don’t belong in the same sentence, but if we can’t root for the team we created a website for when they’re 7 games out, then why the hell did we make a website in the first place?


Lance Uppercut said...

You would play the "race card" nuss. If Ridnour sits, you must acquit.

Anonymous said...

Welcome back Noel Felix!

Anonymous said...

sorry for posting redundant info.
I'll try using the fancy scroll feature on the front page next time.

Anonymous said...

I'd rather see the standings posted of the teams with worse records than the Sonics.

doubledribble! said...

Okay I went on a serious search for info. tried to get something on this guy bcuz I heard that he was a cross between Vince and RayRay, this from Ronny Turiaf who played with him while he was at Fresno (? pretty sure..)

I am writing this all down bcuz someone has to appreciate how I came across this dude James White.

Searched for Ronny Turiaf = gave Ronny Fields. Ronny was this sick dunker out of ChiTown. Went to school with KG. Sick, twisted hops.

Searched Ronny Fields = Charles Millan. Supposedly, he did a 720. A 720!!! Absolutely no clarification though. No photos or pics. Rumored to be staged.

Charled Millan = James White. Barely remembered this guy out of high-school. He won this "sprite rising stars contest" on ESPN, last I saw of him. They said he was going to Florida or Miami, ended up going to Cincinnati.
This fool did a between the legs from the free throw! No joke!

Alright so I didn't find the article I was looking for about Noel but I came across these video's of White:

YOU GOTTA CHECK THIS OUT! This shiiiiiiiz is NUTZ!

Anonymous said...

Sorry, anon, I'm not giving up on the Sonics. I know everyone else is readying their lottery picks, but I don't want to throw in the towel (yet).

doubledribble! said...

Some stats about Noel:

Correct link this time, promise.

Shot 49% from the field... Named to CBA all defensive team... 15 ppg & 7 rebs for Yakima Sun Kings.

Maybe he can get in Lewis's pocket, making his life misreable on offense with Noel's D. Come to think of it, Lewis hasn't had anyone beyond Wilkens that can defend him in practice, he has gotten too lazy. Payton used to ride him and Nate did too for his "oh well" attitude. This year has been easy street for him and he hasn't displayed the hunger to consistantly demand the ball or consistantly score in the 20's. 29 one game, 17 the next.

Name on player that Rashard gets amped to play against and scores consistantly in the high 20's... He would be better off in the eastern conference, not enough tough defenders in the west, their too soft.

Anonymous said...

Dd, our whole damn team with the exeption of our bigs and D Wilkins should play in the East, soft like a twinkie fillin'

b_con said...

Hopefully they do well the rest of the way, and get a lower lottery pick and pick up B Roy. Then they can ship Lewis out of here and Luke and Ray will be the only twinkies out there.

doubledribble! said...

B Roy... yeah, might be nice. Power Point. Hadn't thought of that.
Where is Wil Conroy? LA? That boy can play, Eric Snow with a better jump shot. Poor Eric, he couldn't hit a jumper to save his life. Looked like he had down syndrome when he shot the ball. Sad, sad, sad.

doubledribble! said...

Anyone know if you have to have a PC to load pic's that appear when you post?

I am trying to load my cover pic of the greatest Nintendo game ever, Double Dribble. Those stop motion dunks were o so fresh!
(Watch out before I break out more lingo circa 89' Like, I got stupid dope moves kid its retarded.)

uh oh, I think that was one of those jokes that should have stayed home in the "think but don't say" file.

Paul said...

Do you mean when you load pics when you post here in the comments, like the little dude next to my name? To do that, you just need to go to your blogger profile and add a picture (I encourage everyone to do it!). And you can use a Mac or PC (I use both).

I'm not sure if there's a way to post a full sized pic in the comments because of Blogger's retarded limitations.

(Also, if you dig Double Dribble, you might like my other blog,

b_con said...

You gotta use Photobucket, thats it.

Lance Uppercut said...

Some of you guys might have to accept that fact that Will Conroy, while a good college pg and a decent D-league player, just might not be cut out for the NBA. It's hard, I know, as I'm still waiting for James Davis to catch on with a team in need of three-point shooting, but it just ain't gonna happen.

doubledribble! said...

b_con : Thanks! it worked!

doubledribble! said...

I dunno about that. I played with him when he was 13 and nobody thought he could play high school. Played with him when he was 16 and nobody thought he could make it to college. Those guys, Nate, Jamal, Wil would practice day in and day out making each other better. Don't forget that he has connections too. It isn't a coincidence that Jamal and Nate worked out at the same club that GP's agent works out at and them getting major visibility, hype and high draft selection. Especially Jamal. Played half a year at Michigan and was picked, what 12th/8th or something? (Not saying that he doesn't deserve it but it makes you question)

For Conroy, consider this. As far as point guards go, that is the one position that has the most variability in height restrictions. Meaning, you can have a 6'10 point but try having a 5'7' center, aint gunna happen. So the real deal is their abilities and wether they are good enough to get to the league. Handles and quickness? better than average. Shot? Lets say this: anyone can get a relatively consistant shot. (relative meaning; no set plays just takes what he gets and whatever he makes its just more butter for the team.) Mental? He's tough, doesn't back down, follows plays. Defense? Probably his best physical attribute.

So whats left... Shine. And he has ZERO. No hops that are out of this world. No jumper that brings fear to defenders. No dimes that could cash out Vegas. In the end he is a respectable defender and a solid throw back point with average skills. Up to this point all I have been doing is making your arguement for you but here is the 2 reasons why he is gonna make it. Heart and Connections. JT, Nate, Jamal and most importantly. Mr. Goodwin. The league is filled with mediocre point guards and the only reason why their there and not some playground legend that could score 50 points in one half is because of heart and connections. Coaches can teach fundamentals but they can't teach heart. (source:

All right I am done. I know, I know...

doubledribble! said...

paul merrill:
Saw the, that is awesome. Bad Dudes?!?!? Priceless.

Lance Uppercut said...

You did make my case. No one is going to bring a guy on because he has heart and "connections."

doubledribble! said...

Are you kidding? What's left then, physical talent? If so there are a whole bunch of people out there that have 10 times the amount of talent that these guys have, so why aren't they in the league? Luck? Just didn't feel like opening a new bank account for a measly 1 Mill?
All these guys got a break because of someone they knew and hard ass work, aka heart. Because they sure as hell didn't wow anyone with their amazing physical talents. Guys with similar strengths, builds and college careers as Conroy:

6'2'' Voteego Commings PItt 15 ppg
6'3'' Jason Hart Syr 11 ppg
6'2'' Labradford Smith Louiville 11 ppg
6'3'' Eric Snow Mich St. 5.9 ppg
6'1' Jacque Vauhn Kans 9.6 ppg
6'1'' Earl Watson UCLA 11 ppg

Anonymous said...

It's tough to say when it comes to the stereotypical NCAA senior stud. For example, a guy like Julius Hodge, who was such a joy to watch in the tournament last spring, has gotten off the bench all of 5 times this year with Denver.

Yeah, Conroy's had some good stats in the D-League this year, but do the Sonics really need him? Or, look at it this way: Conroy was nowhere near the player in college that Ridnour was, so what makes anyone think he would be better in the pros? It's not as if Conroy had physical talents that just hadn't developed yet. He's just like Ridnour, a slightly undersized PG.

One of my favorite college players of all time was Richard Lucas, a PF from when I was at Oregon. He was so much fun to watch in college, a tenacious rebounder and defender. I was convinced when he graduated that he make a great 3rd or 4th man off the bench. The problem was he was too small to make it in the NBA, and his talent level too low. It's okay to be small, and it's okay to be less talented, but you can't be both. Lucas - and I - found that out when the Sonics cut him from their summer tryout camp.

Probably the best argument: If Conroy had gone to George Washington rather than the University of Washington, would we even be having this conversation?

jp patches said...

I agree with nuss, if Conroy hadn't been a dawg, half of us wouldn't even know he exsisted.


What does your ability in college have to do with how your game translates in the pros? Sure it can be a good indicator and the majority of your "star" players--that went to college--were exceptional college athletes. Since when does filling out your roster with college stars translate to professional championships. I'm willing to bet there has been more "star" collegiate athletes turned pro bust, then there has been hard working average players that turn in a productive NBA career.

Conroy has speed, intensity and grit with the ability to distribute the ball. I admit I know this because I followed the Huskies very closley the last few years. Though it seems to me this is exactly what the Sonics were--not so much anymore, now that they're stock piled on medicore PGs--looking for in a back-up PG. And instead of signing Mateen Cleaves(amazing college player) back from the NBDL to a 10 day contract they could have given Conroy an opportunity, injected some hometown excitement into to the team and after the trade for Watson sent him back to the NBDL for further development. It just made too much sense not to.

Then again this is one of the worst managed franchises in the sport, a team that drafted two overrated collegiates in Nick Collison and Luke Ridnour, then didn't want to make a deal for Ron Artest that included Collison. Of course this is only speculation, but I have recently seen JJ Reddick's name pop up in mock drafts, after the Sonics name. This is always hard to predict, because we're not even sure where the supes will land in the draft, but if they take Reddick with any pick that is inside the first round I will never watch another game. Talk about a pro bust. If this guy is half the player Jeff Hornaceck was I'll be surprised.

jp patches said...

A few comments from pre-draft camp. Seems to be exactly what the Sonics were just lookin for.

- Will Conroy: 17 points, 7/15 shooting, 3 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 turnovers – Conroy was apparently asked to do a better job of establishing himself on the offensive end and he responded right off the bat by scoring eight points in the first few minutes. He continued to do a solid job of running his team and playing good defense. He mixed up his improved jumper with the ability to get in the lane and either finish or find the open man. Conroy has arguably been the best point guard in this camp so far, and has made a nice case for himself as a backup PG for the NBA.

- Will Conroy: One of the three best players at the camp Tuesday, Conroy fit right into his role in the drills and continued to perform in the five-on-five matchups as well. Conroy was always talking with his teammates, leading his team and playing his role to perfection. His defense was very intense, and he showed some really nice ballhandling skills to get his man off balance and make his way to the hoop for a strong finish. Really got everyone involved well – especially on the pick-and-roll. Did a nice job mixing up all facets of his game.

Anonymous said...

Duke products are known busts - the only notable Duke players i can think of are Grant Hill - pre Tamia (that's when the injury bug bit him) and Johnny Dawkins...J.J. Reddick is a great college player...he's basically Trajan Langdon with handles...but not that much better.

Anonymous said...

As much as I dislike Duke, they get a bad rap for turning out NBA players. Here's some more players you can add to the list:

Elton Brand
Christian Laettner
Corey Maggette
Carlos Boozer
Shane Battier

All 5 of those guys were/are solid NBA players. Laettner may be widely hated, but the guy played almost 900 games and scored more than 10,000 points in the league. If you can get that in every draft as a GM, you're doing a helluva job.

Lance Uppercut said...

Luol Deng isn't shaping up to be too bad either. I too hate Duke though.

jp patches said...

"Okay I went on a serious search for info. tried to get something on this guy bcuz I heard that he was a cross between Vince and RayRay, this from Ronny Turiaf who played with him while he was at Fresno (? pretty sure..)"

I'm not sure where this came from especially since Turiaf went to Gonzaga. I do remember Tuiaf saying something similar in regards to the Supes 2nd round pick from last year, Mickael Gelabele. Where Ronny had played in some French leagues, confirming Galabeles' desire to come to the Sonics next year, and that they(Sonics) would be pleaseantly surprised with his abilities.

Here is a list of Duke #1 draft picks since '89

Danny Ferry
Alaa Abdelnaby
Christian Laettner
Bobby Hurley
Grant Hill
Cherokee Parks
Roshon McLeod
Will Avery
Corey Magette
Elton Brand
Trajan Langdon
Shane Battier
Jay Williams
Mike Dunleavy
Dahntay Jones
Loul Deng

Laettner did put up a solid career, but what he was in college and how that translated to the pros, I think you could label him a bust. Unfortunately Hill, the best of the bunch by far, had his career cut short. Brand has looked very impressive in this a possible MVP year and worhty of his lofty #1 selection. I would agree with Magette, and I think you might have left off Deng who has been a solid contributor for the bulls. Battier and Boozer are decent players.

But for all that collegiate production very little NBA return.

jp patches said...

Oh, moral of the story, stay away from Duke products. I think the "rap" is warranted.

doubledribble! said...

Thanks, your right, Turiaf was talking about Gelabele.

Dukies... cant f'n stand em. Especially now with the rumor that they get preferential treatment from the Ref's. It is true though that Duke have the most College busts, while NC has the most successful pros. Which makes me think who is a better coach?
Coach K or Dean Smith?
I love Dean but, damn I hate to say this, I gotta go with Coach K.

Another question:
Which college has produced the most successful point guards?
I am going with Georgia Tech.
Mark Price
Kenny Anderson

doubledribble! said...

I meant that Turiaf played "with" him meaning on the same floor, against him.

Anonymous said...

Maybe the reason everyone thinks Duke players are busts is that those same players are hyped beyond belief while they're in college and, let's face it, a large number of them are the same skin color as the sportswriters doing the hyping. It didn't hurt Bobby Hurley and Christian Laettner that they were white when it came to the number of column inches devoted to their heroics.

Still, I looked at how UNC grads have done in the NBA as a quick and dirty comparison. Here's a quick list since 1990:

2004 – no picks
2003 – no picks
2002 – no picks
2001 – Brendan Haywood, Bust
Joe Forte, Bust
2000 – no picks
1999 – no picks
1998 – Antawn Jamison, All-Star
Vince Carter, All-Star
Shammond Williams, bench player
1997 – Serge Zwikker, Bust
1996 – Jeff McInnis, Starter/Reserve
1995 – Jerry Stackhouse, All-Star
Rasheed Wallace, All-Star
1994 – Eric Montross, Bust
1993 – George Lynch, Starter/Reserve
1992 – Hubert Davis, Reserve
1991 – Rick Fox, Starter/Reserve
Pete Chilcutt, Reserve

Basically, since 1990 the Heels have produced 4 all-star quality players (Wallace, Stack, Jamison, Carter), to 3 from Duke (Hill, Brand, Magette). If you add in Boozer and Battier, I think the quality of players from Duke over the past decade matches up quite well with UNC's.

Anonymous said...

Of course, if you include the 80s (Jordan, Perkins), well, that's whole 'nother kettle of fish.

jp patches said...

you forgot Jarrett Jack. I guess the book is still out on him.

I'm going to go with Gonzaga
John Stockton
Dan Dickau
Blake Stepp


UTEP had two pretty good ones in Nate Archibald and Tim Hardaway.

But Point Gaurd U--sorry dawg fans--goes to Arizona.

Steve Kerr
Damon Stoudamire
Jason Terry
Mike Bibby
Gilbert Arenas

Anonymous said...

Maryland has Steve Francis, John Lucas, and Brad Davis.

But Ga-Tech has to get the top prize. Throw in Travis Best and they beat anybody.

doubledribble! said...

Joe Forte- o' how I miss your HUGE forehead. When that guy dreams he dreams in WIDE wide screen.

Nice work. Its a bit of a stretch to say that Dukes top 3 can match with NC's top 4, even during that time period. Which brings up the point that you can classify and adjust the time period and players produced to show stats that are advantageous for even the smallest colleges in comparison with UNC. But that is another topic, I'll stick to the identified period.
Say you take the weakest one out, Jamison (who is an All Star while Magette isn't) and put them against each other.
Vince - Hill
Stackhouse - Magette
Brand - Wallace
(All taken in their best shape and at their prime).
I would take Vince, Stack and Wallace. So yeah its close but UNC has a nice lead and then you add the other pieces, Boozer and Battier, they just don't hold weight against Fox, Lynch, Mcinnis, Davis, JR Reid, Felton and Scott Williams. And that is within the restricted time period.

doubledribble! said...

Thats who I forgot about, Travis Best! I knew there was one more.
I forgot about Arizona too, good point!
Speaking of which, anyone know what happened to Mike Dickerson? He was scoring almost 20 per game and then...poof! Two years later they announced his retirement?
Looks like he slept with the GM's Daughter again. You know West, he don't play.

UTEP 2 STEP and his Knuckle Ball Shot?!?! I remember watching him cross Stockton over on a fast break. I must've watched that clip a thousand times.Those were the golden years in college ball.

jp patches said...

Since the title of this post is Race I think this is a fitting comment. I don't disagree with you one bit, Nuss, in regards to Hurley and Laettner. Which is exactley why I would steer clear of Reddick. He's overhyped. He's good in a place like Utah or maybe Boston. Don't get me wrong I'm not bashing white players. Larry Bird was my favorite player growing up and I love Steve Nash. Reddick could be part of Al Qaeda for all I care, I just don't hink his game will translate to the pros. And I don't want to see the Sonics make a mistake on a player we don't even need.

In you assesment of NC players you included a few secound round picks like Zwikker and McInnis, where as the Duke players I listed were all selected in the 1st round. The sheer testament to the overrated Duke player.

So let me put it this way. At the hieght of their professional carrers, all injuries aside, I present DUKE vs NC

DUKE North Carolina Adv

PG Hurley Williams even
SG Magette Carter NC
SF Hill Stackhouse Duke
PF Brand Jamison even
C Laettner Wallace NC

bench NC

Battier Fox
Deng Lynch
Dunleavy McInnis
Ferry JR Reid
Langdon H. Davis
Parks Montross

Needless to say Duke nor NC would ever be confused with Point Gaurd U. I also added JR Reid since I started my Duke list in '89. I think this is a pretty fair and clear comparison of two of the top programs' draftees over the year. I'm taking NC.

This is a list without the 4 first round picks the tarheels supplied in last years draft, Maybe we can revist this idea in a few year and see how they stack up against Reddick and Sheldon Williams of this year.

Nuss, you also forgot James Worthy.

jp patches said...

Sorry about the spacing.

jp patches said...

Yo DD, what about Shammond WIllimas and his Mushroom 'do. In all honesty I'm taking Williams over Hurley, too.

Anonymous said...

Good Lord, I can't believe I forgot Big Game James. When I typed in Perkins and MJ, I kept thinking, "who is it that I'm forgetting?" Thanks for the reminder.

I guess I'm not saying that Duke's produced better players than UNC, just that they haven't ALL been washouts. Plus, if you look at their peaks, Hill was much better than Stackhouse (Grant was 1st- or 2nd-team all-league 5 times; Stack: 0) and Brand is definitely better than Jamison.

It is strange how bleak UNC's been for the past few years. Before this year's bonanza, they hadn't produced a decent player in 7 years.

jp patches said...

It's also interesting that it coincides with Dean Smith's retirement and now with Roy Williams at the helm.

doubledribble! said...

Kenny "the jet" Smith
Hill versus Stackhouse... thats a tough one. Hill with Detroit for a couple of years was scoring many and often. For Grant I keep getting swayed by Grants injuries. Grant Hill in his prime... yeah I give it to Duke on that one.
yall have a good week end!